tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1032107545250385399.post2529208699062870701..comments2023-09-07T00:35:28.236-07:00Comments on Nerf this Druid: Dear WoW Insider, I think you're wrong.Avernahttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05745045119122468517noreply@blogger.comBlogger65125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1032107545250385399.post-57896009590358922442009-05-01T07:54:00.000-07:002009-05-01T07:54:00.000-07:00Something I will totally admit: I've *never* been ...Something I will totally admit: I've *never* been great at debating. But it was really fun to do it here in this comments section! =P So thank you Ferarro and everyone else who commented (no, really - I mean it!).<br /><br />I've NEVER had this much of a response to one blog post. ....but 65 is *quite* enough, so I'm going to shut down the comments section. <br /><br />Who knows, maybe Ferarro's hope , and Adsski's (and mine, too) will be realized, and we'll have a mace that's customizable per class. <br /><br />You can be sure that when that's revealed, I'll be one of the first to post it on my blog - so keep checking back. =)<br /><br />Thanks to everyone for putting in their 2 cents.Avernahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05745045119122468517noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1032107545250385399.post-8474223449997586142009-05-01T03:38:00.000-07:002009-05-01T03:38:00.000-07:00Addski is right. And in fact, I suppose there will...Addski is right. And in fact, I suppose there will indeed be different versions of the mace.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17664396284434704777noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1032107545250385399.post-64084284554957203272009-05-01T03:32:00.000-07:002009-05-01T03:32:00.000-07:00I think we should end this discussion, the simple ...I think we should end this discussion, the simple fact is this.<br /><br />Until this Mace is created by assembling the pieces and used on the production servers, we will not know for sure the stats or the actual mechanics of the proc. Who knows what changes may have been made since the PTR.<br /><br />I have a feeling we'll all be suprised as GC comment was that it'll be great for all classes, so who knows the stats might be set on creation according to user class, i.e a Paladin creates it and the stats benefit them, a Druid creating one might get slightly different stats (Spirit prehaps) a Priest or Shamen something beneficial to them. It may just be that so few were seen on the PTR that this is true but as yet undiscovered. (I.e. a pally created the Mace on the PTR, and hence its good for them)<br /><br />Lets wait and see, then the theorycrafting can commence in earnest.Adsskinoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1032107545250385399.post-32815398748310044752009-05-01T03:31:00.000-07:002009-05-01T03:31:00.000-07:00Maybe Averna is not that great at debating, but sh...Maybe Averna is not that great at debating, but she's doing her best to explain why she thinks Ferraro is wrong. Also encouraging others to express their opinions.<br /><br />If you ask me, I'd say the stats are so pathetic that arguing about who benefits the most is just funny. And that 1% edge, that's still an edge, indeed IS an edge, but it should have no influence on a GM's decision on who gets the mace. It should be "the most worthy healer gets the mace, period." And this was already written multiple times.<br />Also I personally don't think Ferraro is wrong. She is totally right, saying that "it's just that Paladins get more out of it." Paladins are the only ones who just can't ask for more. The mace has got everything except for spirit and mp5 which they simply don't need.<br />What truly makes me sad is that "Val'anyr is a Paladin weapon" post on WoWinsider. What is that? A boy persuading his GM to give him the mace? I don't know which class the author of the post is playing, but it totally looks like that. While I think it's a shame for a serious resource like WoWinsider to post such one-sided articles. I'd say the post is composed of two layers: the one "I want this mace so badly" covered by Ferraro's research and Alice's disappointment about the proc. To put it simply just look at those citations which I find to be the core of the post:<br />"Paladin blogger Ferarro thinks that the new legendary mace from Ulduar is a Paladin weapon and she explains why in a detailed post"<br />"...weapon's proc ... puts the weapon squarely in the hands of a Paladin. Even Allison found it something of a bummer (she plays a Druid) when she found out about the proc"<br />"I'll probably send to our GM for some, um, consideration..."<br />This is so childish.. That "Even Allison!" part makes me smile each time I read it) I would just skip that post with a smile on my face if it wasn't published on WoWinsider.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17664396284434704777noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1032107545250385399.post-37858974225929712542009-04-30T18:58:00.000-07:002009-04-30T18:58:00.000-07:00I believe Averna started the "stifling of opinions...I believe Averna started the "stifling of opinions" when she wrote: <br /><br />"You're not a villian, you're just wrong."<br /><br />And the fact that she followed it up with such poor arguments didn't help anything.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1032107545250385399.post-4293570661164185122009-04-30T16:53:00.000-07:002009-04-30T16:53:00.000-07:00How about this one? Stats will mean nothing come t...How about this one? Stats will mean nothing come the next expansion, but the proc will still matter.)<br /><br />@Anonymous<br />"You're embarrassing us Druids."<br />That's rude in the first place. Along with that "..for some reason you're not able to read. Or something. LOL" passage. If you read Averna's journal, you should know that she is always trying to get to the core, does some heavy maths and is trying to put everything simple for less experienced players. She is definetly the one to be proud of.<br /><br />Doomkin_at_Heart<br />"Encourage communication and debate on issues, don't stifle differing opinions."<br />+1Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17664396284434704777noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1032107545250385399.post-77608614977450940412009-04-30T14:07:00.000-07:002009-04-30T14:07:00.000-07:00(agk, hit "publish" too soon).
Anyways my point i...(agk, hit "publish" too soon).<br /><br />Anyways my point is, nobody should be shutting anyone's ideas down. <I>Encourage</I> communication and debate on issues, don't stifle differing opinions.Doomkin_at_Heartnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1032107545250385399.post-17759004031425863072009-04-30T14:04:00.000-07:002009-04-30T14:04:00.000-07:00@Anonymous
"Maybe Averna has a good idea in her he...@Anonymous<br />"Maybe Averna has a good idea in her head somewhere, but she's really bad at debating and discussion and doesn't know how to convey any of it"<br /><br />Even if that's the case --which I dont agree with-- it still doesn't discount what she's trying to say, or that she's saying it at all. <br /><br />I don't accept the argument that "if you can't argue well or <I>the way I want you to</I>, you're wrong". Or in your case, Anonymous, you think she's "embarassing all druids" because she's not saying things the way you like.Doomkin_at_Heartnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1032107545250385399.post-62583459401977812742009-04-30T13:59:00.000-07:002009-04-30T13:59:00.000-07:00I agree with averna. The mace can be great on drui...I agree with averna. The mace can be great on druids Paladins may have a better use of the on proc but thats like saying warglaives should never be given to warriors because rogues do higher dps. Its great all around. stop getting your knickers in a twistAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1032107545250385399.post-75566888798489452882009-04-30T13:50:00.001-07:002009-04-30T13:50:00.001-07:00Thank you, Doom.Thank you, Doom.Avernahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05745045119122468517noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1032107545250385399.post-60914088712056235642009-04-30T13:50:00.000-07:002009-04-30T13:50:00.000-07:00It's not "my standards." Just look at Averna's cou...It's not "my standards." Just look at Averna's counter-comments. They make no sense. She'll bring up a point and it'll be resolved and proven, but she'll just keep bringing it back up. Like if she asked "What does 2+2 equal?" And someone said "4!" She would go "Okay but... what does 2+2 EQUAL?" "We said 4!" "Okay so you agree with me that 2+2!" Do this about five times and you have an idea of what she's been doing. Just take a few minutes and read through the back and forth comments. It's really sad.<br /><br />Maybe Averna has a good idea in her head somewhere, but she's really bad at debating and discussion and doesn't know how to convey any of it, so she's just sounding ridiculous and like Ever said, "complaining for the sake of complaining."<br /><br />I don't agree with Ever's methods either, but he's right in what he (she?) is saying and Averna hasn't made a point since comment #2.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1032107545250385399.post-91165450083481053822009-04-30T13:49:00.000-07:002009-04-30T13:49:00.000-07:00If that is the case then I sincerely apologize.If that is the case then I sincerely apologize.Avernahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05745045119122468517noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1032107545250385399.post-22152473018456001452009-04-30T13:37:00.000-07:002009-04-30T13:37:00.000-07:00Now, now... don't be getting down on people just b...Now, now... don't be getting down on people just because they're not arguing "up to your standards"<br /><br />That applies to everyone, including Averna, Ever, and Mr. Anonymous at the end there.<br /><br />Averna is *not* embarrassing all druids. Nor is she doing anything wrong. It's her blog, and she can post as often as she likes. I'll continue to read, and respect her opinions and thoughts <I>regardless of whether I agree with them, or how she's presenting them</I>.<br /><br />I also respect what Ferraro's points are (and Ever's arguments too, though I disagree with his approach vehemently.)<br /><br />Thank you Averna for posting this, and having the courage to show your passion on the subject. And thank you Ferrero for sparking this. Debate is never a bad thing, even when it brings out people's claws. :)Doomkin_at_Heartnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1032107545250385399.post-36964798876429295592009-04-30T13:00:00.000-07:002009-04-30T13:00:00.000-07:00@Averna: You should really stop commenting. You're...@Averna: You should really stop commenting. You're just digging yourself deeper and deeper.<br /><br />I play a Resto Druid on Dalvyngr and even I can see you're making no sense. Ferraro (and even Ever) have made several good points but for some reason you're not able to read. Or something. LOL<br /><br />The proc could be good for pallys or it could be equal for all healers, it doesn't matter. Pallys get more use out of the mace. Like Ever said, it's either 2-1 or 1-0, regardless of the proc. <br /><br />You're embarrassing us Druids.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1032107545250385399.post-8505838375834378112009-04-30T12:54:00.000-07:002009-04-30T12:54:00.000-07:00a druids overheals come from constant little heals...a druids overheals come from constant little heals of a few hundreds, maybe a couple thousand. a paladins overheals are a result of 20k or more, resulting in a much larger shield.<br /><br />the shields strength is based off the heal itself, and a paladins heals are bigger than a druids. both in effective heals and overheals. do you get it? a druids overheals are from healing a bunch of people for 300-1000 a tick, resulting in a 150 shield at most. even if your hots ticked for 2000 each time, the shield would still only be 300. a paladins overheal is upwards of 20k+, giving the target a 3000 shield. <br /><br />and sweet lord im not agreeing with you that the proc is equal for all healers. you even quoted me saying, "YOU SAY..." as the first two words! i was telling you what YOU said and then breaking it down.<br /><br />jesus christ.Evernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1032107545250385399.post-69104716389311645692009-04-30T12:45:00.000-07:002009-04-30T12:45:00.000-07:00"the proc is better for paladins because (as ferar..."the proc is better for paladins because (as ferarro said on her blog) when she saw the proc WITH HER OWN EYES, it benefitted from overheals and indirect heals like beacon of light. so a 3000+ shield on your MT/OT is amazing."<br /><br />But druids do more overhealing than paladins. We have more overhealing than any other class. We do approximately 70-80% overheal on any given encounter. It doesn't count on WWS, because overhealed ticks don't count there. It makes us look efficient, when really druids are very inefficient in terms of overhealing - meaning, we do LOTS of it. And paladins aren't the only people with indirect heals - what about chain heal, or other AoE heals? So "it works with overhealing and indirect heals" is definitely not a point in your favor.<br /><br />"you say that raid healing and shielding is EQUALLY important to the raid as mt/ot healing and shielding is, which means its not better for a paladin, druid, shaman or priest. its the same for everyone."<br /><br />Wait. In your first point, you said "the proc is better for paladins because of overheal" (which I refuted, but whatever). Now, you say that it is equal? So you agree with me that it's equal, then? Because the only way you can use the stats argument as a tipping point is if you assume that the proc is equal for all healers, and therefore, agree with me. Do you get that logic? Do you see how it makes your two arguments contradictory? You're supposed to be trying to prove this point wrong, proving that the proc is better for paladins, not agreeing with it. <br /><br />So, please prove to me why the *proc* is, as F says, best for paladins - the overheal argument doesn't cut it. Prove to me why putting big shields on few people is BETTER than putting smaller shields on many people, especially when Ulduar has so much AoE damage. Prove to me why the proc is better for mainly single target healers rather than AoE healers. You still haven't proven that, and neither has Ferarro, even though you both keep insisting that because of the proc, it's good for all healers, but better for paladins. <br /><br />This is really starting to go around in circles, so it's the last thing I'll say.<br /><br />Also, I'm not a dude, and I'm not dense. =PAvernahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05745045119122468517noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1032107545250385399.post-11309948841228310382009-04-30T12:03:00.000-07:002009-04-30T12:03:00.000-07:00holy shit dude. lol
theres no way anyone is this ...holy shit dude. lol<br /><br />theres no way anyone is this dense.<br /><br />im going to try one more time to break this down and spoonfeed it to you, and if you still dont get it, im just going to let your readers laugh at you.<br /><br />here we go.<br /><br />the proc:<br /><br />possibility #1: the proc is better for paladins because (as ferarro said on her blog) when she saw the proc WITH HER OWN EYES, it benefitted from overheals and indirect heals like beacon of light. so a 3000+ shield on your MT/OT is amazing.<br /><br />theoretical score: paladins 1 - druids 0<br /><br />possibility #2: you say that raid healing and shielding is EQUALLY important to the raid as mt/ot healing and shielding is, which means its not better for a paladin, druid, shaman or priest. its the same for everyone.<br /><br />theoretical score: paladins 1 - druids 1<br /><br />so those are the two arguments between yours and ferarros. she thinks it benefits paladins cause shes seen it, you think think its the same for all healers. with me so far? so its either 1-0 paladins, or a 1-1 tie.<br /><br />now. with the proc out of the way, we come to the stats. theres not a single (good) druid out there that can or will deny that the stats on the mace benefit a paldain more than a druid. YES druids can use crit. all healers can. but paladins need crit for healing and mana regen and combo healing, so crit is far more vital to their healing than it is to druids. thats pure fact. no one can argue with it. <br /><br />stat score: paladin 1 - druid 0<br /><br />so final score? <br /><br />either paladins 2 - druid 1 <br /><br />OR<br /><br />paladins 2 - druids 1<br /><br />whatever your opinion is about the proc, whether its better for paladins or if its the same for druids, paladins overall still get slightly more benefit from the mace than druids. <br /><br />if you STILL cant understand this, youre hopeless.Evernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1032107545250385399.post-54038969038454544332009-04-30T11:44:00.000-07:002009-04-30T11:44:00.000-07:00Your logic doesn't fly. To prove your point, you s...Your logic doesn't fly. To prove your point, you set it up like this: <I>You assume that I'm correct</I> in saying that the proc is equal for all healers. You GIVE me that point. Then, to prove your point, you say "look at the stats! It has a bit of crit on it!"<br /><br />Instead of you doing that, I want you to prove to me WHY, as Ferarro says, the proc is <I>better</I> for main tank healing paladins rather than <I>as equally good</I> for ALL healers, including AoE healers. Because that's what Ferarro is arguing - she says multiple times that, due to the proc, the mace is better for paladins. So give me some facts, or numbers, SOME kind of information that says "this shield is better for a small number of targets rather than a large number of targets". <br /><br />Unless you DO think that the proc is actually equally good for all healers. And in that case, you agree with me. =)Avernahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05745045119122468517noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1032107545250385399.post-38912476304679440542009-04-30T11:16:00.000-07:002009-04-30T11:16:00.000-07:00"This is what I'm arguing against, because I think..."This is what I'm arguing against, because I think the proc would be equally good for any healer (including AoE healers), not just MT/OT heals."<br /><br />im not even going to scroll up and count how many times ferarro said this, but maybe you never read it. <br /><br />youre arguing that the proc would be good for ANY healer. alright so lets pretend thats what ends up happening. now whats the only difference between the healing classes if the proc is just as good for all of them? the stats on the mace. like it or not, paladins get more benefit from the stats on the mace than druids do. and that was her point.<br /><br />theres two parts to the mace. the proc and the stats. if the proc is the same for everyone, the stats still arent. <br /><br />seriously. cmon. this isnt a hard concept to grasp. its been said like a dozen times.Evernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1032107545250385399.post-57781641112068975292009-04-30T08:59:00.000-07:002009-04-30T08:59:00.000-07:00What is this mace for....
The question you should...What is this mace for....<br /><br />The question you should be asking is not which class this mace is best suited to, because its amazing for all healers, and frankly only the best and most respected healers (not to mention talented) will ever be lucky enough to get one.<br /><br />No a bigger question is.. <br />What are Blizz intending for these Healers to use it for.<br /><br />Well its not Ulduar! As you have to finish it to get the Mace right? Yogg-Saron needs to be defeated i believe.<br /><br />I'm hoping (fingers crossed) a new ultra hard mode or new secret boss will be revealed where BoAK will make the difference, only the most dedicated will ever get there, fewer still will win, and those that do...<br /><br />Shall be legendAdsskinoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1032107545250385399.post-68208241333965661082009-04-30T08:12:00.000-07:002009-04-30T08:12:00.000-07:00@Ever: She does say it's BiS for all healers, and ...@Ever: She does say it's BiS for all healers, and she's 100% correct. And it would be in good hands to whichever healer gets it. But then she says it's "better in slot" for paladins, because of the proc: "If MT/OT healing is all we're good for, then that simply reinforces the Paladin's priority for this mace even more. No one's shield proc from this weapon is going to be stronger than a Paladin's."<br /><br />This is what I'm arguing against, because I think the proc would be equally good for any healer (including AoE healers), not just MT/OT heals.<br /><br />Hell, Iscariot up above thinks we're both wrong, and that it would be BEST in the hands of an AoE healer. I wouldn't go so far as to say that, because I think that MT/OT healing is just as important as AoE healing.<br /><br />@Ever again (just saw your latest comment): You're totally right. However, she should know that a lot of GMs aren't that smart, and will see "it's a paladin mace, period" and simply stop reading. It's unfortunate, but true. Is it her responsibility to help out these ignorant GMs who won't read the whole article by putting something in the beginning that says how it should go to *any* dedicated healer? Well, yes, I think it is. If she's a good blogger who knows her audience, anyway. But that's not the topic we're really focusing on.<br /><br />@Nephis: Good luck. =)Avernahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05745045119122468517noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1032107545250385399.post-68602453742396183912009-04-30T07:58:00.000-07:002009-04-30T07:58:00.000-07:00@nephis: actually, if guild masters read her artic...@nephis: actually, if guild masters read her article and follow it, theyll do what you just mentioned and give it to the most dedicated healer, whether its a pally or not. she never once says to always give it to a paladin and actually states several times to give it to whatever class your best healer is. a lot of you guys keep attacking her but shes actually lobbying for you. and she said in another post that shes the gm of her guild and she actually gave the first fragments to her druid. <br /><br />thats why so many of these comments make me laughEvernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1032107545250385399.post-78098501789583964732009-04-30T05:42:00.000-07:002009-04-30T05:42:00.000-07:00This arguement has gone beyond ridiculous now! Thi...This arguement has gone beyond ridiculous now! This mace was made available to those four classes because it's a healing mace. Not a pally mace. Not a Druid mace period. <br /><br />The way pallys are acting about this you would think that intellect and crit were completely uselss to any other healing classes! The reason this weapon doesn't have spirit is so pallies CAN use it, not to make it worse for the others. This should go to your guilds most dedicated healer. I hope that no guild masters are reading articles and giving this to pallies in preference. <br /><br />It's an immense proc, that's what makes it legendary and as such it should be in the hands of someone who deserves it and will use it well, regardless of class. <br /><br /><B>That means me if you're reading this Olaladine.</B>StaticAxbyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09116324447306938917noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1032107545250385399.post-85808104702853528502009-04-30T04:43:00.000-07:002009-04-30T04:43:00.000-07:00Quote from article...
"This is what I take this e...Quote from article...<br /><br />"This is what I take this equip effect to mean now:<br /><br />1. You cast healing spells.<br />2. Val'anyr procs, giving you this buff. This buff stays on you for 15 seconds.<br />3. You heal other people. Throw around LBs, rejuvs, nourishes, wild growths.<br />4. Anyone who has a heal from you land on them in that 15 seconds gets a shield on them, which shields them from damage equal to 15% of any of your heals on them over the next 15 seconds." <br /><br />I am wondering if in practice this may mean almost permanent up time unless there is a hidden cooldown on the proc of the buff.<br /><br />I am also wondering about the 15sec shield rule, will shields stack? A new shield for each tick or new heal applied, this could mean having a shield up on the group for 30secs! <br /><br />Allied to this a proc at the enrage moment of a boss fight could be invaluable, throw hots on all group members you can for the first 7 secs of the proc to get shields up, then hit innervate and tranquility to give a huge shield boost to the group, could make the difference between a win or a wipe... just my ramblingsAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1032107545250385399.post-55647874130660599172009-04-29T21:18:00.000-07:002009-04-29T21:18:00.000-07:00lol im not mad. i find it amusing. the facts are r...lol im not mad. i find it amusing. the facts are right there and she said its best in slot for all healing classes right in her article. but just because she pointed out the stats lean more towards paladins, every class NOT a paladin is acting like she wrote AMG ONYL MY PALADINS SHOULD GET THIS MACE!!!! she didnt. lol<br /><br />so im not mad or full of "rage". i just think its funny how the problem with her article has dwindled down to simpply "how" she wrote it.Evernoreply@blogger.com